Last week, I criticized claims that religious belief increases happiness. I pointed out that these claims are based on data that don't actually compare religious believers with atheists and agnostics. Instead, they are based on comparisons between churchgoers and non-churchgoers, and people who pray regularly with those who don't. At most, such comparisons show that religious believers who attend services and/or pray regularly are happier than religious believers who don't. They say nothing about differences between religious believers and nonbelievers. In addition, the argument in question conflated correlation with causation.
This week, columnist Mary Eberstadt uses the same data (collected by Albert Brooks) to argue that religious belief increases charitable donations and volunteering:
This one’s by econo-brain Arthur C. Brooks and is called Who Really Cares: America’s Charity Divide: Who Gives, Who Doesn’t, and Why it Matters. Geeking over what he calls “the fruit of years of analysis on the best national and international datasets available on charity, lots of computational horsepower, and the past work of dozens of scholars who have looked at various bits and pieces of the charity puzzle,” numbers nerd Brooks shows beyond a doubt one fact that our Side should not want out — i.e., that American believers are more “generous” in every sense than the enlightened likes of Us.
Brooks says that religious people give more to charity than non-religious people — in fact, much more: “an enormous charity gap,” he reports, “remains between religious and secular people.”
To see this, imagine two women who are both forty-five years old, white, married, have an annual household income of $50,000, and attended about a year of college. The only difference between them is that one goes to church every week, but the other never does. The churchgoing woman will be 21 percentage points more likely to make a charitable gift of money during the year than the non-churchgoer, and she will also be 26 points more likely to volunteer. Furthermore, she will tend to give $1,383 more per year to charity, and to volunteer on 6.4 more occasions.
Brooks goes on to test the charity gap up, down, and sideways. The results are always the same:
“People who pray every day (whether or not they go to church) are 30 percentage points more likely to give money to charity than people who never pray (83 to 53 percent). And people saying they devote a ‘great deal of effort’ to their spiritual lives are 42 points more likely to give than those devoting ‘no effort’ (88 to 46 percent). Even a belief in beliefs themselves is associated with charity. People who say that ‘beliefs don’t matter as long as you’re a good person’ are dramatically less likely to give charitably (69 to 86 percent) and to volunteer (32 to 51 percent) than people who think that beliefs do matter.”
The flaws in this argument are exactly the same as those I pointed out in the claim that Brooks' data shows that religious belief increases happiness: the analysis doesn't actually compare religious believers and atheists or agnostics. It compares religious believers with different levels of observance. For reasons I noted in my earlier post, the vast majority of Brooks' respondents who say they never pray or go to church are still religious believers. It stands to reason that people with less commitment to their ethical beliefs (as indicated by lower attendance at services, or failure to devote "a great deal of effort" to them) are less likely to contribute to charity based on those beliefs. A religious person who doesn't go to services or pray probably has less commitment to his belifs than one who does, and this may be reflected in their level of charitable giving. The same cannot be said of an atheist or agnostic who doesn't go to services or pray. They simply have a different set of ethical beliefs, one that doesn't require attendance at religious services, but may still require charitable donations, volunteering, and so on.
Some of Brooks' comparisons are even less relevant to to the religious-secular comparison than his data on church attendance. For example, you can disbelieve in God, yet still devote "a great deal of effort" to your "spiritual life," especially given the broad, amorphous definition of what counts as "spiritual" in today's popular culture. Similarly, it is perfectly possible to think that "beliefs" matter a great deal, yet also be nonreligious. Indeed, some of the most strongly committed atheists - people like Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, who think that nearly all religion is evil - would surely say, in a survey, that "beliefs" matter a great deal.
Finally, it's worth noting that even if Brooks and others can show a correlation between religious belief and giving, that doesn't necessarily prove causation. If believers do indeed give more than atheists and agnostics, it may be because of variables exogenous to religious belief that are correlated with it.
As in the previous post on this subject, I note two caveats. First, I am not claiming that I have proven the opposite of Brooks' and Eberstadt's argument: that religion doesn't increase charitable giving. I merely point out that they haven't proven their own case with the data they rely on. As far as I know, we don't yet have a truly reliable comparison of charitable giving by atheists and agnostics on the one hand and religious believers on the other. This gap in the literature represents an opportunity for enterprising scholars.
Second, the validity of religious belief and of atheism don't depend on their effects on charitable giving. Religion could be true, yet fail to stimulate charity. It could also be false and yet increase giving.
Related Posts (on one page):
- Does Religious Belief Increase Charitable Giving?
- Does Religious Belief Increase Happiness?
- Academics and Happiness Revisited:
- Why Are Academics So Weird?
Who's the most charitable? Republicans.
By far, in fact. Is this perfect? No. But it's still a pretty good indicater, if not actual proof.
501(c)(3) status from the IRS isn't necessarily the best indicator of whether an organization fits a certain ethical mandate (or any other relevant mindset other than tax planning).
That may have been tongue-in-cheek, but: an issue of discussion among some in my local church was whether that 10% should be taken from gross income or net (take-home) income.
The "gross income" camp appears to have won the argument: render first unto God, and then to Caesar...
The same divide exists in libertarianism. Some libertarians say "Give to charity, just not through tax-funded government programs," others say "Don't fund poor life choices, charity just subsidizes poverty." The latter get the most press.
Riddled with guilt, no doubt.
I find this association more credible. I remember checking into the "Brights" site immediately after Katrina, when religious organizations were coming forward with aid. One lonely poster suggested that the "Brights" organize an aid effort, but nothing seemed to come of it.
I love name-calling like this by theists. I believe it can be translated roughly as "You're just as illogical as we are!" Which isn't true, and in any event, really shouldn't make them feel better even if it were true....
Nope
Still doesn't scan.
More work.
Assuming your Eberstadt quote didn't omit anything significant, I really like your dissection. So much, in fact, that (if you'll permit a segue, and promise not to get a swelled head) it inspired this reverie on our education system:
1) if the typical citizen had and used the practical statistics and critical reasoing skills displayed in this analysis, our country would be a lot better place
2) but as things stand <1% could produce something similar (or even ace a multiple choice test based on the assertions therein)
3) this despite the fact that (setting aside the factoid from your earlier post) not one of its many assertions is conceptually beyond a moderately bright 9th grader or typical 12th grader
4) our education system has a long, long way to go:-)
What I found to be startling was the revelation that conservatives give more blood than do liberals. (Here.)
Re: Tithing. I don't buy it. First of all, with taxes being what they are, it's difficult to tithe when you're already giving a good portion of your income to the "charity" known as the government.
Second, most people who attend church services do not tithe. Sure, the collection plate slides by, but it's a lot easier to throw a dollar in there than it is to throw in 10% of your paycheck. I can ask my religious friends, but the really, really religious ones are usually doing things like having one working parent and six kids, so they simply cannot afford to give away 10% of their income when they need to watch every cent. (Giving a dollar to the collection plate is much like giving a dollar to the Salvation Army bell-ringers; easy, and most people would not count it as charitable giving.)
Third, even if religious people do give a lot of their money to churches or related activities (I know that many of the churches in my town support the local crisis pregnancy center), that only tells us where religious people's money goes... it doesn't tell us what non-believers, atheists,sometimes-church-goers,Christmas-Easter Catholics etc. do with their money.
As for the church attendance issue:
Believers who don't believe in anything in particular can hardly be called believers. Religious people use terms like serious Christan or serious Jew to distinguish those with a real practice of faith from those who probably just lack the courage to say they are unbelievers.
I don't find this that surprising at all. A few of the churches I know of regularly arrange blood drives. People are more likely donate blood when they have to walk 10 feet from a place they are already going to anyway. A much smaller number of people are likely to drive far out of their way to donate blood.
I'd bet you find that employees of all beliefs at companies that regularly arrange blood drives give more blood than employees at companies that do not.
Ten feet? Our church sponsors blood drives. On weekdays. That means the pastor and the church secretary are ten feet away. Everybody else has to drive miles out of their way to participate. My lifetime total before they cut me off for a liver blip is about 120 units. Gave at my church once.
Try again.
On one point raised by the commentators, any number of charitable institutions have a social component. I highly doubt, however, that many law professors are giving 10% or even 1% of their income to the Federalist Society--or to the ACLU, for that matter. I don't see much to distinguish churches from other charities in this regard. If the point is that religiously observant people are generally more involved in community activities than the anti-social and selfish atheists, and that they can run activities on a basis of "pay what you can" because they aren't afflicted by freeloaders and cheaters, then that's fine.
But I think all the imperviousness of the anti-religious commentators here to statistical evidence may presage a bright future for some in tobacco litigation, on the tobacco company side.
This is one of the main conclusions to be trumpeted from Brooks' work, but I believe it relies on the fallacy pointed out by Dr. T.
I see all that blood you have given has affected your reading skills. you'll notice that i never said all.
So long as we're comparing anecdotes, my 3 beats your 1.
Jim Lindgren de-constructed the assumptions and analyses behind those conclusions and found them substantially wanting.
Nope. Wrong again.
I think that Ilya must be working with different data. It seems that the study originally referenced was conducted by an academic, where Ilya says he's responding to data gathered by a noted comedian and film-maker (if his parethetical reference to the Eberstadt article is correct.)
no, I don't. I just need there to be a significant difference in the number of people who donate when it's convenient and those who will go out of there way. From my experiences in a blood mobile this is true. i'll give an example, at the main office we always had plenty of room for walk ins wanting to donate blood and yet offsite at a large company, with the same number of phlebotomists, we had to turn a significant number of people away. From this I conclude that more people donate blood when convenient.
I don't see where you get any points for having the church secretary and the pastor being ten feet away as an explanation for the difference in blood donations.
so now you're contending that all churches are like the one you go to?
you need to step up your logic because it is sorely lacking (as usual).
I would like to correct JB who falsely claims that Objectivists are anti-charity. And who false claims they try to speak for all atheists. He is wrong on both accounts. Rand herself engaged in charity, helping young people with loans for college and contributing food parcels to people in Europe after the war. Tibor Machan, an Objectivist, wrote an entire book called Generosity published by Cato.
He also misstates most libertarians I know when he claims that a good number say don’t give charity because it subsidizes poverty. Everything I read and all the libertarians I know who are supposedly on that side of the debate actually say something different. They do say that charity can subsidize dysfunctional lifestyles but they don’t then conclude all charity is evil. They instead say one must be charitable wisely and that govt. is bad at that where private chairty is better as such discerning giving.
It was noted that liberals (socialists) are generous with other people’s money. True. But then conservatives are generous with other people’s blood (see Iraq).
Stalin, Mao, Che and the other liberals have the conservatives beat by a mile in the killing department.
Therefore, they aren't going there because it's convenient.
You confuse belief and creed, which is typical of insincere and insecure "believers". There have been religious liberals farther back than the Council of Nicea in Christendom, and farther back than Buddha in the East.
But at least the ARC does good work. They've been pushing really hard to get H.Res.937 passed, "Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the emergency communications services provided by the American Red Cross are vital resources for military service members and their families". Good thing someone's trying to get the HoR to express some sense.
I've personally volunteered at blood drives on sundays so i know it's done.
what is your next easily disprovable claim going to be?
This last question strikes me as interesting. Stripped of all religious beliefs, what is the source of the moral obligation to give to charity? Some libertarians, such as Ayn Rand, have contended there is no such duty:
"My views on charity are very simple. I do not consider it a major virtue and, above all, I do not consider it a moral duty. There is nothing wrong in helping other people, if and when they are worthy of the help and you can afford to help them. I regard charity as a marginal issue. What I am fighting is the idea that charity is a moral duty and a primary virtue." [From "Playboy's 1964 interview with Ayn Rand"]
The fact that regular church attenders take a different view and are therefore more likely than non-attenders to give to charity (and do so in greater amounts), seems utterly predictable. So, to repeat the original question, why the defensiveness? Do atheists have a moral duty (contrary to Rand) to give to charity, and if so, what is the source of that duty?
This one’s by econo-brain Arthur C. Brooks and is called Who Really Cares: America’s Charity Divide: Who Gives, Who Doesn’t, and Why it Matters.
Notice the distinction. Arthur Brooks. Not Albert Brooks. I am sure the latter man has plenty of interesting data to offer on a variety of topics, but not here.
Just because your church (or city) doesn't have blood drives on sunday, no church anywhere does. That's some great logic you got there.
It doesn't matter anyways. Brooks studies found that the Religiously Observant were more likely to give to Secular charities as well.
Even if you are right- that people who go to church can give blood because as they walk out of the church, they can go give blood, so what? As you indicated yourself, the Red Cross goes anywhere they are invited- including businesses, sporting events, colleges, and town-hall meetings. Yet despite all those other opportunities (1 Sunday vs all the other weekdays), it's the religiously observant people who are still more likely to give blood.
Why is that? If it's your answer that there is no secular analogue to churches for organizing such charity, then fine. But, then you've sorta proved Brooks' point.
However,sport, your initial nonsense would have required all, not just some, believing donors to be giving on Sundays.
Not only have I never given on Sunday, none of the sponsoring folks have ever had anything going on Sunday. Not churches, the ARC direct, specific drives such as for pheresis/ferisis/phoresis, or for specific individuals. None.
So your excuse for the non-believers just falls flat. Flat.
Give it up.
That may have been tongue-in-cheek, but: an issue of discussion among some in my local church was whether that 10% should be taken from gross income or net (take-home) income.
The "gross income" camp appears to have won the argument: render first unto God, and then to Caesar...
Respectfully, Anonthu, you are not quoting the New Testament accurately. The New Statement simply states "then render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." Nevertheless, I have wrestled with the same issue your church addressed. Does one tithe gross or net income? Tithing gross income is probably best although I think if someone tithes only net income but then invests a portion of their net income and "tithes" their resulting trust/estate upon their death to the church then that will probably be okay given the power of compound interest over time.
richard's point about his wife only proves my point (although not surprisingly he doesn't realize it). she gave at a church sponsored event because it was convenient.
However,sport, your initial nonsense would have required all, not just some, believing donors to be giving on Sundays.
no it doesn't. it is also possible that the donation was conveniently located on their way home from work. and even then, many other reasons are possible...it is incumbent on you to prove the causation that you are claiming.
Not only have I never given on Sunday, none of the sponsoring folks have ever had anything going on Sunday. Not churches, the ARC direct, specific drives such as for pheresis/ferisis/phoresis, or for specific individuals.
you can keep on trying to prove a negative...but it won't get you very far. I have personally worked at a blood drive on sunday. i'm not sure why that is so hard for you to understand.
richard, people tend to be arrogant because they are intelligent and capable of making a good argument. i can't figure out why you are so arrogant.
you can find a response to most of your points above. but i will make an additional response to this:
As you indicated yourself, the Red Cross goes anywhere they are invited- including businesses, sporting events, colleges, and town-hall meetings. Yet despite all those other opportunities (1 Sunday vs all the other weekdays), it's the religiously observant people who are still more likely to give blood.
when a secular organization such as what you listed organizes a drive, both religious and non-religious people donate. if a company runs a blood drive, on what basis are you concluding that all religious people are donating for only religious reasons? how do you explain why non-religious people donate? and why is there no overlap between the motivations?
and i'll note that i never said that religious people only donate on sunday as you seem to by implying i said.